Boston - New England Boat Show

[parrothead]

The Admiral has a serious case of cabin fever, and has convinced me that we should consider a road trip the 2009 New England Boat Show in Boston this weekend. Since the show has been open for nearly a week, I wondered if anyone had attended -- and if, in your opinion, there is enough of a "sailboat presence" to make it worthwhile?

[Paul S]

Not much of a sailboat presense. Not terrible, but no Newport experience for sure. Maybe a couple dozen, at best, sailboats.

The edge is there FWIW. No Macgregor presense though.

[parrothead]

Thanks, Paul. I'd wondered if there would be an on display -- not that I'm in the market for a new one. "MacGregor Sailboats" appears on the show web site's list of Boats-by-Brand, but I couldn't identify a Mac dealer among the list of exhibitors.

It would be interesting to see an Edge in person, but mostly boat shows are about fantasy... and my fantasies are bigger than that.

[Paul S]

Thanks, Paul. I'd wondered if there would be an on display -- not that I'm in the market for a new one. "MacGregor Sailboats" appears on the show web site's list of Boats-by-Brand, but I couldn't identify a Mac dealer among the list of exhibitors.

It would be interesting to see an Edge in person, but mostly boat shows are about fantasy... and my fantasies are bigger than that.

It (edge) is a lot better than most people here give it credit for.

We are going (again) to look at 'real' boats to see what we like and don't like. Not a lot wow'ed me in the 36-38' range. The Sabre was awesome, but almost everything else underwhelmed me. Of course comparing it to the other boat we are looking at (1968 Ohlson), everything on the modern boats looks soooooooo cheap (other than the sabre). From the cheapo veneer to the plastic hinged ports. Everything screamed 'made in china' (probably isnt, but thats how things looked/felt). The Sabre was a fresh departure from that.. build quality and fit and finish were top notch. I still like the ohlson better.. but got to get the admiral to get on board (literally)

The show is a good day out.. beats a day of work!! I wouldn't travel hours and hours to go to this show. Not a lot of sail

[KayakDan]

I'll second what Paul said. The show this year was 1/3 smaller,and 80% powerboats. Apparently a lot of vendors chose to do the Miami show instead.
We climbed all over the Edge. It was OK,but for over $50k it didn't do it for me,and the Admiral didn't like it at all,so look at all the money we saved!
I liked the cockpit size,and the rudder setup,and that was about it. The Macgregor was supposed to be there,but did not show.

oh well...there's always the Newport show

[kmclemore]

Now that is an interesting comment. The Mac dealer has issues. With the show? The boat, other dealers? What. We need to know, I need to know.
MIke Inmon

Probably better to take that off-line, Mike. If folks want to share those issues with you via email or even PM,, that's fine, but I think running down a particular dealer - any dealer - here on the forum may be inappropriate. Fair enough?

[mikelinmon]

Maybe better for a civil conversation to take off line, but what about the customer. Maybe they would be better served by disclosure. I frankly have mixed feeling about this. In particular, I have a vested interest in why one of our dealers would back off the boat show. It is in my interest that this boat be promoted and I am in favor of our successful dealers. My livelihood depends on good dealers as well as a good boat! I say lets talk about the stuff and fix broke stuff, dealers or boat. I know there are compromises in dealers and boats. A dealer might spend all his time promoting club activity, his customers using their boat, events, racing an old MacGregor (wait, thats me) or might just go to every boat show (that will be me from now on). Our 26M has fewer compromises than most think. How about a hull bottom strong enough to go over 20 mph! A deck light enough to carry enough sail area to move a planning hull, Weight on top slows a boat, loads up a trailer,loads up a tow car, and crashes the boat when striking docks etc. Our boat can bounce off a dock with scratches when a heavy boat will crush itself. I have seen this several times, the same crash, heavy boat or MacGregor. Unless they are hitting each other, the MacGregor will win each time. Now to the boat and outfitting. This got me going on this rant! I sold a boat (in a boat show)to a gent who brought a wish list made up of stuff on the MacGregor that he was told to replace! You don't need to replace anything on a MacGregor. After you run out of options and extras from AC to gensets to showers, radar mounted on the rotating mast (quite a trick) boarding ramp for your dog/wife/guests, and can think of nothing else you want, then lets talk about replacement of somthing. You know what I'll replace if I ever get every extra thing I want, I'd match the trailer wheels to look like my tow car! He, my new customer, was interested in the Edge because of this wish list which he got from a MacGregor dealer! I want to say which dealer out loud but this time will just do it by phone( he hasn't called back yet). Edge not on display I had the advantage! It is my firm belief; the parts, all of them do not bear the cost or effort of replacement. Halyards are costly, the Mac Halyards will last 30 years. Sails, heavy sails last longer and don't set as well, period. Second, there is no sailmaker anywhere with as much practice making MacGregor sails. They will get it wrong! 1st try, 2nd try all the way. How many know just how much sag is in the genoa, or the rotating mast, or just how little it bends fore and aft, or what the side to side bend does to the needed sail shape, they even don't understand about sails less than 150%, some will sell a 135% which cannot work on a boat with sidestays mounted 4 feet of centerline with a 9.9 foot J. If you did not follow that, don't feel bad, most sailmakers, probably yours will go ahead and make you a 135% jib. You want a bigger mainsail, I like a bigger mainsail (big roach) have used them for years, but I sail in Marina del Rey, light wind to no wind. Most places need just about exactly what the Mac has. If you have a big roach sail in a breeze it will give you weather helm, period. Your boat will slow down and heel too much, period. If anyone tells you any thing else, find an expert with no ax to grind. Sorry, I can't be the one now that I'm PO'd. Change out some blocks, for what! Oh, MacGregors new lightweight winches, half the weight, never need lube! I put them on my raceboat. Buy teak and holly floorboards, don't replace perfectly good halyards just to give your dealer more profit. Get a shower and elec water system not aftermarket mainsail (unless you sail here in Newport Beach then maybe so). A real marine stereo, maybe some remember the car stereos installed in the past and how quickly they stop from rust! West Marine has good ones, CC does not, but they just went chapter 13.
So there you have my case for disclosure. Most of the customer feedback about our dealers is good, I hear it all I just want to fix the rest. Help me out about this and lets talk about anything with no protection for bad behavior.
MIke Inmon

[Highlander]

Mike

I agree the boat is a fine sailing vessel for most the way it is, if you have not sailed one & buy one it is better to buy it stock & later decide what you want to change if anything !
But people like me who have sailed & own a & like to tweek out our boats just to be differnt & prove that they can be improved appon mind you at a cost ! the boat equipment is fine for the average sailor the halyards, stays on my 1993 mac19 were all original and still in good condition only changed out some for my cutter rig,
My mac dealer's up-grades are all additions to the boat like stern rail seats, full enclosure, furling main sail , bottom painting . he does NOT recommend changing any of the hardware , standing rigging , or running rigging & I agree ,
But I fly more rag in heavier weather so I changed some blocks & pulley's to ball bearing ones because I ain't as young & strong as I used to be . I changed out some of my halyards, sheets because after my cutter rig mods my running rigging were to short & I went to colour coded rigging because its easier for me to see with so much rigging on my boat , but the halyards & sheets that were changed will now be used for my storm sail so nothing wasted
And some of us who have made some very nice mods to our boats actualy do more to help the promotion of the boat for our dealers
You'd not believe how many people asked me when did Macgregor start production of a cutter rig with a bowsprit and that eventualy leads to buy the way ! where did you say you bought your boat
Now how could you not like this mod ! & many like it on this site
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010036.jpg
j

[Paul S]

No idea what the official reason why Macgregor wasn't at the show (whether it was havencraft or KH). I would guess that since they probably are not getting the volume of boats they used to, it would probably not cover the cost of the show by going to it. I think it would be a good thing in general for a dealer to have a presence there just the same.

[tangentair]

Not to go east coast or west coast on anyone, because we have an excellent dealer here in the Midwest who like Mike has extensive and detailed knowledge built on considerable direct sailing experience with the MACs - yeah I am talking about Bill @B4S, but I have to agree with most of what Mike has said. There were no MACs at the Chicago Strictly Sail, but the last time I saw one there, the dealer demonstrating it damn near talked me out of buying it with his attitude and "knowledge". There was an Edge, I didn't climb in - a recient knee replacement - but my 14 year old did and said it wasn't worth the climb. Yeah, there was some comparison to the MAC going on but the out the door boat show price with a 75hp was over 50K.
I will say this, the guy from MAS epoxies said there were pleanty of very knowledgable people at the MAC factory when he visited there recently - we were talking about building a weighted dagger board and didn't understand why I wasn't in contact with them. Which brings me back around to "talk about the stuff and fix broke stuff, dealers or boat." comment of Mike's. A moderator action taken by Frank C. best expresses my personal opinion - Welcome aboard the MacSailors Forum, and sorry to read about your problems. The Forum appreciates seeing all Dealer feedback, both positive and negative. However, as a Forum Moderator, I have changed.....You are clearly entitled to your chosen degree of ire, and the Forum continues to invite reasonable discussion. But the Forum also reserves the right to constrain extremes, so please bear in mind that caveat, 'reasonable discussion.' Free speach here is limited not by the Supreme Court but rather by the board's owner.
I think the Edge is a good thing - those with 50K will buy it or a C&C OR they will value shop and find a MAC. It validates the MAC's concept and the dealers need to be able to demonstrate like Mike just did that the MAC is not a cheap or flimsy boat.

[DaveB]

Paul,
When I decided to look for a Sailboat back in 1980 for a World Cruise, I was set on a 1963 Alberg 35 that was 20 yrs old after a 12 year study for the trip.
At the time I went to many Boat shows and tho the Endeavor 32 and few others looked inviting I thought they never had the strength as a Alberg.
Friend of mine that we berth next to at Hyannis Marina for a couple of yrs had a 28 Saba and indeed that was a fine built boat. They wanted a larger and toured all the factories that produced 30-38 ft, range sailboats .
They settled on a 34ft. Saba and what the decideing factory was...how clean and Professional run the factory was.
Today even a Endeavor 32 is rated as a Blue Water Sailboat, in 1980 it was a coastal cruiser.
I think the Baby Boomers restricted for cash is going for the Trailer Sailers like the Mac. and smaller.
It only makes sence if you are capiable in rigging it.
I have had my Mac.X for a year now and been on both coasts of FL. and like the way it travels.
It's not top of the line and maybe not in the middle but it's a boat you can go sailing or power that will get you there at a afforadable price.
Dave

[Paul S]

Paul,
When I decided to look for a Sailboat back in 1980 for a World Cruise, I was set on a 1963 Alberg 35 that was 20 yrs old after a 12 year study for the trip.
At the time I went to many Boat shows and tho the Endeavor 32 and few others looked inviting I thought they never had the strength as a Alberg.
Friend of mine that we berth next to at Hyannis Marina for a couple of yrs had a 28 Saba and indeed that was a fine built boat. They wanted a larger and toured all the factories that produced 30-38 ft, range sailboats .
They settled on a 34ft. Saba and what the decideing factory was...how clean and Professional run the factory was.
Today even a Endeavor 32 is rated as a Blue Water Sailboat, in 1980 it was a coastal cruiser.
I think the Baby Boomers restricted for cash is going for the Trailer Sailers like the Mac. and smaller.
It only makes sence if you are capiable in rigging it.
I have had my Mac.X for a year now and been on both coasts of FL. and like the way it travels.
It's not top of the line and maybe not in the middle but it's a boat you can go sailing or power that will get you there at a afforadable price.
Dave

I guess I don't know what you point is. We are keeping our Mac and possibly getting something else larger to keep on a mooring. The main issue is the wife and I are totally polarized on what we want. I want a moderate/narrow full keel boat, she want the equiliant of an RV (beamy and lots of stuff). At this rate I don't see how we can compromize. At the show the boats she liked I totally hated..and the ones I liked she hated as well. At this rate we will be saving a lot of money!!

[Québec 1]

I went to the first of my 2 days at the 2nd annual Nautical Seminary in Québec City today!

http://www.productions4temps.com/filead ... dition.pdf

SORRY...ITS JUST IN FRENCH ...NO ANGLOS allowed here John..now maybe if you brought your perfectly acceptable girlfriend...

I had two situations where I got an absolutely incredible reaction from people who own 37 footers and had never heard of the Mac!

They basically fell off their chairs when I explained the ...passive gravity fed water ballast,ridiculously easy mast raising and lowering system, 50HP outboard motor and attainable speed, trailering capacities, 12 inch draft and 18 inch draft motoring capacities, luxurious looking interior of my Mac and ridiculously low price. ( I have my personal 26M slide show on my phone to back up my statements)
One guy practically started hyperventilating when I mentionned the 50HP Honda 4 stroke! The wives looked like they wanted one once they saw pictures of the interior and the guys looked interested when I indicated that I solo most of the time and prefer to advise my guests not to do anything cause its easier that way! ( I let them steer but only cause I don't have an auto pilot ...yet)

This is the perfect boat for me! I love to solo my 26 footer 2 sails to the wind against a 3 knot current whilse sipping a Moosehead!
Q1

p.s. It is legal to drink and drive a boat in the province of Québec as long as you are legally not drunk .08

[kmclemore]

Maybe better for a civil conversation to take off line, but what about the customer. Maybe they would be better served by disclosure. I frankly have mixed feeling about this. In particular, I have a vested interest in why one of our dealers would back off the boat show. It is in my interest that this boat be promoted and I am in favor of our successful dealers. My livelihood depends on good dealers as well as a good boat! I say lets talk about the stuff and fix broke stuff, dealers or boat. I know there are compromises in dealers and boats. A dealer might spend all his time promoting club activity, his customers using their boat, events, racing an old MacGregor (wait, thats me) or might just go to every boat show (that will be me from now on). ....
MIke Inmon

!

kmclemore:

Mike, I don't talk about my wife's faults in public. I don't discuss employees who are not performing up to standard in front of other employees. Some things are just better done in private. Such it is with dealer issues like this one. I am not trying to limit your gathering of information regarding these issues, I just think it's proper to take it off-line, in email or private messages. Airing dirty laundry in public is just not a situation that's necessary or desirable here. We've had our share of dealer/customer cat fights on the forum, and they are not only distasteful, but they're also often inaccurate and misleading (on both sides). More importantly, they create the serious possibility of drawing Heath, the Moderators and posting members into a costly legal situation, and could also potentially lead to the demise of this valuable forum. This is something we do not want, and as such I have to ask you to please refrain from encouraging folks to join in such a public conversation. I'm sorry if you feel that's limiting free speech, but in regard to such conversations I choose to moderate on the side of caution and civility. Heath has the option, of course, to step in and say otherwise, but I feel reasonably sure he will agree. However, if you wish to contact Heath directly for his opinion, I encourage you to do so.

[Heath]

For the record, I agree with Kevin's moderator actions.

Heath