A New 33' Quasi Mac?

[Bumpcity]

Hello all,

The new drawing is excellent...However, I agree...there should be a nav table and bulk head (prewired or wire boxes that lead to the cockpit area) to install a GPS, Radar, stereo speakers, or what ever the need is. As mentioned that can be a dual use area for storage, or additional galley prep space.

The aft berth should probably be built with the entrance being on the port side, which is where the head area could be. You could add a small porthole on the side of the cockpit seat for light and air (I was on a Hunter 30 for a week with this design and it was very comfortable). Anyway...the design is looking great...

Lorenzo

[Richard O'Brien]

Hi Guys
Duanne, Here's the address for the line drawing

or just do a google image search "Hobie 33".

Drat! I have client meetings tomorrow. This is way more fun. It seems like the aft berth can run square to the axis, as Art suggested. Yes, ventilation and light are important. Perhaps a Beneteau 235 stern, portlight? Maybe, we could keep a small standing area on the starboard side, or not and/or even a small nav station opposite. It looks like there is plenty of room for more galley along the port side too, or starboard if we flip it? I think a drop in fridge would be great there too. I don't know where it's deep enough for the 2' sq. required yet. i can use advice for the head. I don't know how big a shower/head combination must be? With all our brain power I'll bet we can come up with some solutions?

NOTE: I didn't draw the mast on the plan. It looks like it hits at the forward end of the table. I'll catch it on the next drawing.

If any admirals are reading this, please don't start discussing colors and finishes, as we only have two days left this year. Richard

!	kmclemore:
	Fixed URL.

[AWKIII]

Hi guys!

This is really starting to come along and the input is fantastic.

If I was looking to purchase this boat there are few things I would like to see. One would be a small seat next to the forward vee-berth. It provides a little more room in the forward cabin plus it allows a great place to sit and organize things and take your shoes on and off. It would be really nice if there was a storage or combo storage/hanging locker directly across from it.

The second issue is the nav station. You need to give some thought to this. This boat is and will remain capable of sailing offshore. She has done it for years. It has done quite a bit of ocean and big lake racing. With today's electronics, most navigation is done in the cockpit. However, it's not somewhere I want to be if the weather sours. Duane mentioned the easy appraoch is to use the galley table. It is definitely simple and very cost effective. However, if there is real estate available, it would be nice to see one. It doesn't have to be elaborate but it does have to be functional and not an afterthought.

I really appreciate all the pictures and drawings that have been posted. Russ...I really appreciate the one of the highway disaster. Great marketing material.

A couple of notes. I have mentioned on several occasions that the cockpit and transom have been completely re-designed and the tooling is finished. It dramatically changes the look and size of the cockpit. I have several photos of it that I forgot to bring home on my last trip. I will post them during my next trip. The reason why I bring this up is that the cockpit is actually much larger now. We will have the ability to take some of that increased length and give it to the cabin. I wish I could be more specific about how much but it is simply way too soon. I would estimate that we are talking about a minimum of 12 to 18" though. So you can push back the cabin entry by that amount if you want.

I have been in more boat building projects than I care to admit. But I have to admit, this has been the most fun and exciting. When all is said and done, this boat should have a tremendous amount of potential. Affordability, trailerability, livability, performance under sail and the ability to carry a moderate sized outboard off the transom that offers electric start, power tilt and remote controls. It's not a Mac or an Edge. It is a hybrid in a class all of it's own.

The hard part in all of this is deciding what color Hull #1 should be. I was looking at the gelcoat color chart yesterday and counted 233 different ones. The One Design racer will definitely be in Porsche red. I think Richard could have guessed that though.

Regards,

Art

[Bumpcity]

Hey Art,

I was reading your last post and started to think about the hull color...the first thing that came to mind was (for coastal cruising anyway) high visibility and easy to repair if there is a mishap...in other words white, with bright striping of the buyers choice. The blue hulls look fantastic as well as all of the other colors I have seen out there...however, white is so much easier to maintain and repair since blending is not such a chore if it needs new paint. I personally like the white and black or white and blue look myself...the boat could be tricked out with canvas and a few pieces of hardware that are teak and or chrome.

Also, I forgot to mention that I have currently modified my 26M dining table into a U shaped seatee and I use a small wooden folding table to eat on when I need it (the folding tables you see at home). Under the seats I configured a couple of deep plastic slide out drawers that are awesome for storage purposes...they hold well while sailing and it uses all of the available space with EASY access...I am heading to my boat today...I will take a couple of photos and post them in the mod section. This would be a great add to this boat except I would use glass or wood for the drawer construction...

Great work!! Thanks for letting us give our input...creating a boat that has what most people want is a chore...however, there are certain PRE installed items that can make modifications easier in the future...this is a HUGE selling point for the people who have to budget their upgrades and do it in phases based on available funding.

Thanks,

Lorenzo

[AWKIII]

Hi Lorenzo.

Would love to see pictures of the mods you described.

As for color, I pretty much agree with you. I am very partial to a white boat for many reasons. You are correct about striping. It comes in every color under the rainbow and you can do some real nice things with it. I particularly like a harpoon boot stripe and an understated cove stripe.

It is interesting. Last year we sold over 40 new MacGregors. Care to guess the ratio between white and blue? Believe it or not it was exactly 50/50.

The One Design version will definitely be Porsche red. You know the old saying....sex sells and there is nothing sexier than a red sports car or racing boat.

Art

[Richard O'Brien]

Hi guys!

This is really starting to come along and the input is fantastic.

If I was looking to purchase this boat there are few things I would like to see. One would be a small seat next to the forward vee-berth. It provides a little more room in the forward cabin plus it allows a great place to sit and organize things and take your shoes on and off. It would be really nice if there was a storage or combo storage/hanging locker directly across from it.

The second issue is the nav station. You need to give some thought to this. This boat is and will remain capable of sailing offshore. She has done it for years. It has done quite a bit of ocean and big lake racing. With today's electronics, most navigation is done in the cockpit. However, it's not somewhere I want to be if the weather sours. Duane mentioned the easy appraoch is to use the galley table. It is definitely simple and very cost effective. However, if there is real estate available, it would be nice to see one.

I have mentioned on several occasions that the cockpit and transom have been completely re-designed and the tooling is finished. It dramatically changes the look and size of the cockpit. I have several photos of it that I forgot to bring home on my last trip. I will post them during my next trip. The reason why I bring this up is that the cockpit is actually much larger now. We will have the ability to take some of that increased length and give it to the cabin. I wish I could be more specific about how much but it is simply way too soon. I would estimate that we are talking about a minimum of 12 to 18" though. So you can push back the cabin entry by that amount if you want.


Regards,

Art

Art
Wouldn't an increased cockpit reduce the cabin space? If we can push the cabin entry aft 12-18" it would be great. I just overlaid the Hobie onto our plan and discovered we lose about 4" on each side of the hull on the bow. The Hobie has a much more pointed entry, and that cost us some valuable space. I'm going to re-read all the entries, 'Check for oversights, push it together, see if it looks like a camel

Richard

[AWKIII]

Hi Richard.

Nope. Although the re-design increases cockpit length, it has no impact on cabin size.

Take a good look at the old design. The transom is full and the outboard is mounted in a well you access from the cockpit. This is all gone now.

The new transom is gorgeous. Completely open with stern rails and double lifelines. The outboard is now hung on a beautiful custom built stationary bracket capable of holding some real weight.

The gain in cockpit area is at the stern of the boat where there was a lot of wasted space.

Can't wait to see the next iteration!

Art

[Bumpcity]

Hey Art...

I put some pics of the U shaped seatee on the mods page...take a look. I think the design of the latest drawing would have the same feel...I personally think it gives the interior space of a boat with that size beam a much more open feel. The storage is just an added plus.

I hope you and your family have a Happy New Year!

Regards,

Lorenzo

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I've got the Hobie plan and elevation layouts and will mock up my ideas over the next few days now that I have some time off.

It's interesting how very narrow this boat actually is. One of the boats in the latest Cruising World magazine boat of the year competition was the Beneteau 34. It has a LOA of 33' 11", just a bit longer than this boat. It has a beam of 12' vs. the Hobie 33 beam of 8', half again as wide. That extra 4' makes a unbelievable difference in the options that are available for the interior. You really can't compare the interior of any other 33' sailboat because of the narrow beam the hobie has for trailering. The only things close are the long and narrow trailerable trimarans like the Dragonfly, Corsair or Farrier.

Speaking of the Farrier, the F32 is also very close in specs. They have a narrow hull version that is almost exactly the size.

Check out the info here, it is a homebuilt version of the F33 offered by Farrier

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/news/f32new.html

Here is one of the layouts they offer that is particularly similar,


F-32A Aft Cockpit Interior - the one trailerable without a permit

[AWKIII]

Thanks, Duanne.

Looking forward to seeing your drawing.

It is amazing what a couple of extra feet in beam has on a boat.

I was actually looking at two sets of tooling. Both boats were trailerable. One is obviously the Hobie and the other was a 30' sport boat with 9' 6" in beam. It was a tough choice.

Although I wanted to go with the 30 footer, I felt there would be too much buyer resistance. Although the legal limit is the legal limit, I think the whole width issue is over-hyped.

You see J-24's, Hunter 260's and tons of assorted power boats on the road every day of the week and I can't recall hearing of someone getting nailed for towing an oversized load without a permit. I'm not saying it hasn't happened though.

The Farrier interior is actually pretty nice. It's clean, economical and they have done a nice job utilizing space.

Regards,

Art

[Don T]

Art,
I posted a sketch of my layout ideas in the mods section.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1112

Don

[Gravydon]

So my question is what is this boat going to cost when its all said and done sails, trailer, motor.........

[AWKIII]

Hi Gravydon.

At this point it is impossible to say.

A new Mac starts at $21,500.00 without headsail or freight from the factory. Once you add all the little odds and ends along with an engine you can find yourself in the low to mid $30K range real fast.

We have already been advised by the factory to expect another price increase on the boat. We haven't been given an amount or a date though.

I am somewhat concerned about the poll results at this point. 52% of all respondents have stated their maximum budget for this boat would be between $30K and $39,999. On the other hand, 48% could budget between $40K and $54,999.

You are simply not going to be able to build and sell a boat that is wider and almost 8' longer than the Mac for the same price. Even if you were to take the shortcuts in build quality and hardware that MacGregor does.

This boat will be built well. Sandwich construction using vinylester resin with an airex foam core. She will have quality deck hardware and include just about everything you would order as a factory option or pay a Mac dealer to install. Spars, standing and running rigging will be top quality as well.

The interior of the boat will be pretty important in terms of impact on cost. The folks that have submitted drawings and ideas have come up with some pretty novel and cost effective ideas. The great part of this exercise is no one appears to be hoping for a cabin which requires a forest to be chopped down to outfit it.

I am real impressed with the photos Duane has provided on the Farrier and Dragon Fly. Neither are perfect in my book but if you take the best of each and combine them, I think you will end up with a pretty functional and liveable interior. As a side...I really like the table and seating arrangement on the Farrier.

The biggest factor in terms of price will be how the boat is eventually sold. Do you require a dealer or are you comfortable in purchasing the boat direct? When all is said and done, a dealer will pocket up to 20% or more of the price you pay for a new boat. On larger boats that are not trailerable, they earn that money and I think it is justified. On smaller boats, one can make an argument against a dealer network. There are a lot of builders who have done just that: Melges, Hake/Seaward, Potter, Rocket, Andrews, etc.

So the question still remains...how much?

I'll take a stab based on these conditions:

1. The boat is purchased direct.
2. It is fairly well-equipped including a steel trailer and sails.
3. The price would be FOB San Diego

I am going to give myself a wide berth on this one because there are simply too many variables at this point. For example, the price of raw materials are an absolute bargain right now. Resin by the drum is at the lowest price it has been in ages. It fluctuates though and we will have to factor for it.

On the low end we are probably looking at roughly $40K. High end in the mid to high $40's.

Again, this is pretty tough exercise at this point.

I would appreciate everyone's input on buying direct versus dealer and the price range.

Regards,

Art

[Gravydon]

I like the the sounds of saving money I would buy direct. and drive to cali too pick it up, I think 50000 would be a good price for a fully loaded 33 foot sailboat motor, sails, trailer, I was going to buy a mac after the first of the year but now i think i will hold off a little longger and see what happens here.. I am going to the boat show in Portland Oregon on saturday to check the mac out. the snow melted that means the summer is almost here LOL fun in the sun YAHOO and maybe some how it could have a bigger motor to push it at 14 or 15 mph, that would be nice.....

[Richard O'Brien]

Once again! Boy, some cool new ideas from Duane, and Don. Here's a final shot from me. There are so many variables that it is difficult to get much further without a mock-up. I have tried to allow 27" for booths, based on sitting at the local cafe where they probably thought i was nuts The smallest curtain or door seems to be about 24"m but I'm sure a trained N.A. would know? The 26m has a 27' xx 33"head, but it's the 52' head space that makes it so difficult. If we place a door beside the hull is the curve of the hull going to make passage through it awkward? ' All questions that require a mock-up for someone like me.