A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

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PatrickS
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A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by PatrickS »

A great deal of seemingly endless discussion surrounds the question of what makes a blue water or offshore cruiser, and whether some particular boat would be reasonably capable of an offshore passage or circumnavigation, the concern being how well the boat will stand up to heavy weather which can be expected to be encountered.

Apologies in advance for contributing to that seemingly endless discussion ;-)

[Caveat: I have a moderate amount of sailing experience and have survived a few storms, including ~40 knot winds and ~20 foot seas in a 22' Santana off Guam in the Phillipine Sea, but have not crossed any ocean nor do I consider myself a proper "blue water sailor" -- but, as with many members of this forum, have dreams and plans to eventually "sail around the world"... hence my ponderings on this subject]

Setting aside the frequent (and valid) observations that the suitability of any boat for any conditions depends as much upon the skill and experience of the crew, as upon the capability of the boat, and that a good sailor always keeps an eye on weather and other variables to minimize risk, I wanted to present for consideration a strategy for surviving bad weather or heavy seas in a particular type of boat designed primarily for coastal use in moderate to fair weather, but which has several characteristics which enable a possibly effective strategy for dealing with conditions far more extreme than for which the boat was designed.

In the many and varied discussions that I've followed about what makes a blue water cruiser, there is the frequent re-occurrence of several common presumptions which appear to strongly influence folks judgments and which I'm thinking may not be absolutes for all boats.

These presumptions generally concern the ability/safety of the boat functioning in heavy weather, and the potential for hardware failure from wind or water, or if rolled. It seems that many boats are rejected as suitable offshore/blue water cruisers due to the likelihood of hardware failure (de-masting, loss of steerage, etc.) or risk of sinking as a result of flooding . Namely, it is presumed that

(a) mast and rigging will be up until/unless lost by wind and/or water
(b) substantial flooding of the cabin will result in sinking, thus water tightness is critical
(c) rolling will usually result in irrepairable damage to or loss of rigging
(d) rudder and steering hardware are under continuous stress from the elements

Based on these presumptions, a blue water capable boat must have rigging, rudder, hatches, ports, etc. able to withstand the intense wind and wave energy encountered, allowing one to heave-to, or run, even with bare poles, so as to control the angle of the craft to the seas and minimize risk of broaching, rolling, etc. and above all avoid flooding -- and therefore a boat which does not have rigging and hardware able to withstand continual use under such conditions is not a suitable blue water cruiser. Fair enough. given those presumptions, that's a logical conclusion.

But what if these presumptions are not absolutes, and that one may remove them from the equation, for a certain type of boat?

For the sake of discussion, let us consider a boat which has the following significant, and somewhat less common features:

- Water ballast and Positive hull floatation.
- Mast and rigging easily and quickly lowerable and securable to deck.
- Fully retractable rudder and daggerboard/centerboard.

(presumably everyone here knows what kind of boat I'm talking about ;-)

Let us then consider the following worst case scenario, and an applied strategy for survival: Upon being faced with worstening conditions which soon will exceed the normal safe operational capabilities of the boat, the crew prepares the boat to ride out the weather as follows:

1. Mast and rigging is lowered and secured to deck.
2. All foils (rudder, daggerboard) retracted and secured.
3. Dual redundant sea anchors deployed from bow, each secured to multiple, sufficiently reinforced cleats, with chafe protection.
4. All hatches, ports, companionway, etc. secured.
5. All gear is secured in cabin in case of (or even expectation of) rolling.
6. Exposure suits, life vests, donned by crew (or close at hand for donning quickly).

In this configuration, the rigging has minimal exposure to wind or waves, and minimal risk of loss or damage in the event of rolling as there is minimal leverage from wind/water as stowed. All foils, and thus also all steering components, etc. are removed from the stress of the elements. The boat essentially becomes a sealed container bobbing behind redundant sea anchors. Even if both sea anchors were to fail, and the boat is rolled, it should remain water tight with minimal damage. Even if a hatch or port is breached and the boat is flooded, the boat will not sink, as it has positive floatation, and risk of hypothermia is greatly reduced by the exposure suits, allowing sufficient time for the boat to be pumped out and made water tight again.

Given the high probability that such a boat, when applying the above strategy, could reasonably withstand and survive the heaviest of weather and seas which might be encountered in the open ocean, would not such a boat be reasonably considered blue water capable, and suitable for offshore passage making, and even circumnavigation?

Isn't a blue water boat thus simply a boat which is capable, in one way or another, of getting you safely and reliably across an ocean? One blue water boat may do so more quickly and comfortably (and more conventionally) than another, but getting there is what counts. Eh?

What additional variables or factors to the above strategy might render it less effective? What other forms of failure might occur which are not reasonably addressed by positive flotation, secured rigging and foils, etc?
maddmike
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by maddmike »

Patrick,

All good observations and well thought out. Some food for thought:

1- Not all heavy weather situations will give you the time to properly lower the mast (sudden extended heavy squal-middle of the night).
The mast dropping system would have to be as easy to operate and as quick as furling a sail. I've set up my boat to drop the mast safely at sea and it's still a pain even in the daytime in moderate seas (4-8 ft). Did this so I could drop the mast to get into French Islands in the Caribbean, I had to declare a rigging failure at sea :wink: , otherwise the French do not let boats registered in individual states (U.S. documented boats only)into their waters.

2-Sea anchors need to be easily deployed (like a reserve parachute) and should have multiple securing points (I use a 2" truckers strap completely around the boat).

3-Additional inflation inside the boat to both protect you from getting hurt bouncing about and also limiting the amount of water inside.

4-Strong covers on all windows (I use Carbon Fiber/plywood)=-but still not completely happy).

5-Easy to eat out of the package food, packaged water.

6- A nice pair of swim goggles.

7- Basically, treat the boat as if it is now a 'lifeboat' and not a 'sailboat', don't worry about getting anywhere on time- just go into survival mode.

Love to hear from others on this-----

MM

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PatrickS
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by PatrickS »

maddmike wrote:Patrick,
Thanks Mike. I was hoping you'd weigh in, given your vast amount of experience ;-)

All good observations and well thought out. Some food for thought:


1- Not all heavy weather situations will give you the time to properly lower the mast (sudden extended heavy squal-middle of the night).
The mast dropping system would have to be as easy to operate and as quick as furling a sail. I've set up my boat to drop the mast safely at sea and it's still a pain even in the daytime in moderate seas (4-8 ft). Did this so I could drop the mast to get into French Islands in the Caribbean, I had to declare a rigging failure at sea :wink: , otherwise the French do not let boats registered in individual states (U.S. documented boats only)into their waters.
It occurred to me that practice of common furling pin dexterity on a mechanical bull might be beneficial...

The idea (albeit there are of course no garuntees at sea) is to agressively watch the weather, plan accordingly, be patient, and preempt the bad weather as much as possible when striking the rigging. Still, it's not optimal. I'm just pondering what's possible, not necessarily optimal.

2-Sea anchors need to be easily deployed (like a reserve parachute) and should have multiple securing points (I use a 2" truckers strap completely around the boat).
I've been reading up also on drogues and arguments that they are the better way to go due to a boat's tendency to yaw when bow-to the approaching waves, though not sure how much that is specific to particular hull shapes and how relevant that is to the Mac. Some interesting reading here:

http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_10.htm

3-Additional inflation inside the boat to both protect you from getting hurt bouncing about and also limiting the amount of water inside.
Perhaps one of those inflatable sumo wrestler suits ;-)

Image

4-Strong covers on all windows (I use Carbon Fiber/plywood)=-but still not completely happy).
Do you attach them over the existing windows? Externally? Internally? Why not just replace the current windows with much thicker acrylic?

5-Easy to eat out of the package food, packaged water.

6- A nice pair of swim goggles.
Both good ideas.

7- Basically, treat the boat as if it is now a 'lifeboat' and not a 'sailboat', don't worry about getting anywhere on time- just go into survival mode.

Love to hear from others on this-----

MM

Zeno's Arrow
Rocky Point Mexico
Cheers!
maddmike
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by maddmike »

Patrick, I'll get back back to you on this- I'm now on my Blackberry and typing while everything is jumping about on small keys is a pain. MM
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PatrickS
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by PatrickS »

maddmike wrote:Patrick, I'll get back back to you on this- I'm now on my Blackberry and typing while everything is jumping about on small keys is a pain. MM
Thanks. No hurry. I'm not weighing anchor for a while still ;-)
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by waternwaves »

having been past horizontal in a mac.........and bent, broken, snapped, fouled, cracked most of it at some time or other....

why do you think any boat (particularly our small fiberglass shells) can withstand anything the sea can put out there......

the boat does not go fast.
it will go over.
thinks will break when least expected.
things do not work well when full of salt water


brings back my fathers patent advice for everything......

"The first rule about trouble.........don't be there when it happens."

I have a friend who was a delivery skipper for a while......who scuttled and sank a dismasted new jeanneau with her hull breached......500 miles from the coast...

$#!& happens

There is one group that has boats designed for all weather, all the time, open ocean work......

however.......they dont use much fiberglass out there.....nor do they put the little stuff out there. (and they displace a few more thousands of tons anyway.....)

Good luck, use the right tools, enjoy the trip......perhaps a self inflating raft inside the cabin????

ITs all about margins, the mac does not make good headway in steep seas.....as a coastal cruiser......... I always had the blind belief that I could hit the least rocky part of shore............given enough time..... I have been lucky enough that when I have torn rags the engine still worked.........or when I lost the engine....... I still had a sail or two....... but losing both.......and playing with the drogue......worries me.

you do not want the drougue tie points to be all the way up on the deck.... the lower the better.....and our boats only have a lower tie point, at (with questionable backing well except for MM's and a few others who have beefed up other areas) the bow...

Don't get me wrong.... I admire MM and the others who push the edge with X boats......

but once I am out of the straits of Juan de fu@......and back in the north pacific..... the boat is soooooooooo much smaller.....
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by pokerrick1 »

All this reinforces my decision to stick to simple, easy coastal cruising that I can handle 8) :)
I am (and always will be) a "fraidy cat" sailor.
Rick :) :macm:
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by bubba »

I payed attention to the Mac web site where Roger offers his expertize sailing and he says to try and keep the Mac heal at between 10deg's and 25 deg for best handling and to reef the main and the jib in heavy winds like 30 to 40 mph or higher. The first modifications we did was to add a 3 rd reef. Blue Water Yachts had already added a first reef between the full main and the stock factory reef and we added the 3rd 'a storm' reef and quick reefing system for winds above 30 mph or when the wind waves exceed 5 to 6 feet for better handling and a safe sail. We have had our :macm: out in 30 mph breezes and 5 to 6 ft wind waves in the San Juan Islands and had a great sail and actually cooked steaks on the bbq and took turns eating while crossing open waters and when we turned down wind we got 7.5 mph out of only the 3rd reef and 4mph tight into the wind, not bad for a crusing sailboat.
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by Pete »

The first mod I would make on any boat before a blue water cruse, would be to mount a 50 cal. machine gun on the bow to hold off the pirates.
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bubba
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by bubba »

You would have to be a really hard up pirate to bother with a 26 ft Mac and if you shoot a gun you better be able to survive beening shot and I would not want want any one shooting at my boat unless it was heavy heavy steel.
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by John McDonough »

If by chance, your out in the Ocean in a Macgregor Sailboat, and Severe weather approaches, Remember Patricks last point..

""Treat the boat as if it is now a life-Boat."".
That Blow-up Souma Wrestler suit would help, it may also be used to scare off Pirates, and Wild woman.

I Recall reading somewhere (probably here) that after a hurricane they found a :macx: washed up on the beach. The Hull & deck was intact. I think the mast and rudders were gone. :?: :?: As long as you dont run into Rocks or another hard object, it appears the boat should survive.

Sail magazine noted that in the movie and the Perfect storm. The USCG ordered a 33` West Sailboat to abandom ship and hauled the sailors into a Helicopter. The Boat was later washed-up on a Maryland beach with repairable damage.
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by c130king »

John McDonough wrote:That Blow-up Souma Wrestler suit would help, it may also be used to scare off ... Wild woman.
Why would you want to do that :?:

8) :D :)
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by David Mellon »

Being close to the Mexican border I agree a twin 50 caliber defensive weapon is a must, but I would mount it on the stern so I can shoot south as I race back to civilization. Fortunately my cruising plans don't expose me to much inclement weather. The greatest danger here is the shipping moving around Long Beach Harbor. Keeping my head up and on a swivel when crossing to Catalina is my best defense. Those ships move at an alarming rate of speed and cannot maneuver. However, since I don't have an enclosure and we do get some peaked waves due to the island I keep my hatches shut, my drogue is stored with my life jackets, I store my hand-held GPS charged and in a waterproof case. Simple things but important, a moment of forethought can save you a lot of hurt.
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by J.Teixeira »

Once I crossed the Gibraltar strait... in a sailboat...

From Algeciras to Ceuta...

Believe me ...

We felt like a "smart" rabbit crossing a 6 lanes freeway...

It was really dangerous...

And wen returning it was foggy...

Strategies ???

Radar reflector, Radar, AIS, UII UII AI AI HUG :cry: :P :? :|

Once I did see a Altar MAC Mod ... It would have been useful to...

JT
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Re: A Strategy to Survive Heavy Weather / Seas (?)

Post by delevi »

In case nobody noticed, the Mac's companionway hatch is not water tight. Not by a longshot. I like the idea of a 3rd reef, which I recently had installed. I've been out in 40 kts wind but never in a situation where I would consider myslef in survival mode. That said, if ever encountering such conditions, I would probably opt to keep the rig up and either go bare poles or minimal sails to maintain some headway, like 45 degrees into the waves. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this method would increase the likelihood fo survival vs. no rig, no steerage, no foils and sitting down below praying. I would have all foils down, storm sized jib up, probably no main and pinching up into the wind. Fowl weather gear on and harnassed in. One thing about the Mac is it is very difficult to capsize due to its narrow beam and ballast to weight ratio. It comes in around 1.95 in capsize ratio. Anything under 2.0 is conisdered very good. Most keel boats will be above 2.0. All this said, one must accept the simple reality that the Mac is not a blue water boat and should not be used as such... basically not having any notions of ocean crossings or even be taken more than 100 miles off shore. If one follows these basic premises, the odds of not encountering such conditions or having enough time to run away from them, especially with our powering capability, will significantly increase your odds of staying alive. Hey don't get me wrong. I beet the crap out of my boat, and knowingly take it out in conditions most would consider unsafe. Having pushed the envelope, however, and having sailed more substantial keel boats, I have pretty good idea of the boat's limitations. With all due respect to Mad Mike, I am of the opinion that anyone who would consider crossing an ocean in a MacGregor 26 is playing Russian Roulette.

Fair winds,

Leon
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