Mast Raiser, Gin Pole

[Scott]

http://www.kellyhansonmarine.com/macmovie.htm

I was waxing nostalgic while watching this movie. I decided to make a gin pole for my Catalina but noticed that in the vid the mast has a D ring about 8' up that its connected to. Is this the case with all the crank able poles or does anyone attach the jib halyard to the crank type??

[Hardcrab]

I don't think the gin pole would work very well with the jib halyard.
The winch is not big enough to wind up the extra halyard length, IMHO.
The angle of pull just before the last bit of raising might be to straight, moving the force "downwardish" versus the needed "forward", IMHO.
You would have to retrieve the halyard from the gin pole winch after raising, a PITA at best.
The hound 8' up really works out good, all things considered, IMHO.

[Terry]

Scott
Are you thinking of getting one?
On my M I have that d-ring doohicky you mention, it is like a horseshoe shaped bail similar to the one on your boom for the vang attachment. On the M the baby stays are attached to it and as well the mast raising brake winch attaches to it. When I first got my M it came with the old X mast raising gin pole that ataches to the jib halyard and I used my headsail sheet winches to crank it up with. It worked but I eventually invested in the new brake winch assembly which I like better. I now have a spare assembly that works for the X on my hands but it still requires a means to have one end pivot at the base of the mast while the other end is attached to the jib halyard. There is a bolt that it attaches to on the mast base plate. It is quite generic in design and could be used on other boats provided you had a way to attache it at the mast base. Most X boats use this older system.
HardCrab,
It is not a PITA to retrieve the jib halyard, you simply connect the forestay, then release the tension on the jib halyard and then unshackle it from the end of the gin pole. One side of the gin pole has the halyard connected while the other side has a 4:1 block pulley assembley attached to the bow cleat then that runs back to the cockpit winches and you crank it up or down. Quite simple really, and much better leaverage when pulling from the jib hound 20' up the mast as opposed to the 8' up babystay hound.

On Edit;
Scott I see you have a picture of it posted under the thread "old man raising mast" third pic down or last pic.

[Hardcrab]

I have never seen the X pole in action.
It sounds like with the X version, the pole is moving along with the mast?
With the M version , the pole never changes it's relative position to the boat, only the mast changes as the poles winch line to the 8' hound is cranked in.
The M is my only mast raising experience, so I assumed the jib halyard is being rolled onto the pole winch as the mast comes up, therefore a PITA to remove to go back to halyard duty.

[Scott]

Terry I have a lot of practice with the older X type.
I am considering making one similar to the M type with the crank for my new/ old boat.
It just looks so easy in the video!! Im not getting any younger you know.

[ALX357]

IMHO, the use of a pole mounted crank is not nearly the best way to raise the mast on either M or X . The crank has no advantage in power, beyond its one foot handle, and there is a weak point in trying to mount it securely to the pole, and the drum capacity will only allow a few feet of thick line to wind up.

I recommend the method I use, the standard gin with two strong opposite strap eyes thru bolted to each other on the swinging end of the pole. One side of the pole end is fastened to the jib halyard, using both ends of the halyard attached to the gin pole end. That way, there is no single weak point of knot, but the mast end at the jibhead has a strong securely fastened block it rounds, and the load is shared by both ends of the halyard, the jib shackle and an added shackle for the running end. That fixes the pole in relation to the mast and it moves in an arc from straight forward when the mast is raised, to straight up when the mast is laid back. Now to have the controlled leverage to easily raise or lower the mast, use the mainsheet block-and-tackle rig, or the boom vang rig, attached at the deck eye, and to the gin pole strap eye end opposite the jib halyard shackle. This puts the forces to both sides of the gin pole end equally, and the compression along the gin pole between the mast step pivot pin and the other end. Then using the cam cleats on the block-and-tackle, you can stop the mast raising at any point along the way, maybe to go aft and free stuck or snagged stays etc. and make sure the crutch has not grabbed any of the halyards along the mast. The more blocks in your rig the better, as the turns multiply your leverage and reduce the pull required to raise the mast, or lower it slowly.

I had a spare Harken mainsheet tackle from an old Hobie-Cat, and use it as a dedicated mast raising tackle. Having three blocks at the gin pole end, and two at the cam-cleat end, and being pretty stout, it has given great service. Of course, it makes good sense to not only jam-cleat the line when pausing mid way, AND cleat off the rest of the free end of line to a forward anchor or stern cleat, wherever you are standing while raising the mast. I stand at the bow, near the critical connectins, but could just as well stand in the cockpit and not use the block-and-tackle jam cleat, but the winches and jam cleats there.

[Pacamac-uk]

Exactly, couldn't have put it better myself.

I've had enough trouble with a trailer winch on the trailer without using one where all may come crashing down on my head!

Best to keep it simple and all you need is the gin pole, a pair of baby stays and the main sheet. Oh... and a wife to keep an eye on all that tangled rigging!

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I would never rely on a cam cleat during mast raising, one snag of the line and the whole thing comes falling down.

I find the X system very simple and foolproof to use off or on the water. It also does not require any storage of parts elsewhere in the boat.

The jib halyard goes to the top side of the pole which is set with an angle just past 90 degrees to the mast. Because I don't trust the two screws in the halyard cleat the tail goes down with a quick knot to the boom bail as a backup.

The 4:1 block and tackle with no cleat goes from the bottom of the pole to the deck with a snap shackle, then the line leads aft to the starboard winch. The load on the winch is not high with the 4:1 tackle.

Raising from this position you are already in the right place to tend to any snags without going back and forth from the bow. When raising, the tail of the line is always tended. If you have to stop you never use the winch cam cleat, the tail is led to the starboard aft dock cleat where it is secured so no accidents can happen. This takes all of 5 seconds to do.

Once full up the tackle gives plenty of grunt to tightly tension the system so the forestay can be easily pinned.

When pinned, the tackle is released from the deck and the pole folds up in front of the mast. It and the tackle stays attached and is neatly secured with a single bungee just below the boom. Baby stays stay in place keeping the system ready to use without a lot of fuss. I run the jib halyard to the pulpit as a forestay backup. Attach the boom which is stored on deck bungee'd to the starboard stanchions and you are ready to go.

Likewise, after lowering and placing the mast on the pulpit all the parts stay connected and in place. The raising tackle stays led to the winch and the excess line goes in the sheet bag. The pole bungees up under the mast fully connected and ready to go. The jib halyard stays connected and any excess line is coiled and bungeed to the mast. This makes the next mast raising quick and easy as no installation and re-connection of fittings is required.

Here you can see it all in place ready for the road.

[Wind Chime]

We have an "adjustable backstay" with a 4:1 block-and-tackle.

Beside being able to adjust the mast rake and sail shapes while underway, we find this makes attaching the forestay pin much easier as well. By slacking off the backstay completely when raising the mast, there is less tension on the forestay except at the mast step if over cranked.

Once it is rigged we then re-tighten the backstay, and adjust it for the weather conditions.

Darry

[Scott]

Duane,
Do you have to hike it up at all to get it started or does the winch provide enough leverage to start it?

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The winch easily lifts the mast. Once it is rolled back and bolted at the step I do not touch the mast again. As part of my curiosity about how much weight I was saving when the boat was mastless I weighed the mast with furler, and boom with main sail assembly. All together they totaled 120lbs. The mast and furler are about 100lbs of that. With the mast hinged at the step you are not even lifting that full weight so with the 4:1 tackle you are cranking less than 25lbs at the winch. The higher you go the lower the load. Once past 1/2 way I usually stop using the winch and just pull the line up by hand. I then use the winch for a couple good partial cranks to load up the rig for pinning.

I also have a small block and tackle which I replaced the backstay adjuster with. It has a quick release Keypin shackle on the upper block. I leave the backstay un-attached until the mast is up and the headstay pinned at the furler drum. This also makes it easier to open my bimini as the backstay passes through the bimini top of my tall full Dowsar enclosure.