installing VHF - thoughts

[hart]

If all goes as planned and there are no surprises I'll be picking up a 2001 X this weekend. It's in good shape, has some nice basic mods, and is pretty empty on electronics which is fine by me as I get new stuff.

First thing's first. I want to install a VHF radio for safety's sake. I'm having two thoughts.

1. Get something like the Uniden UM525 or the Icom M422 for the cabin. The Uniden works with a wireless remote station and the Icom works with a wired one - either would be placed at the helm.

OR

2. Install a less expensive fixed mount in the cabin and use a 5 watt handheld unit at the helm if needed.

On my 22' I use the VHF mainly for monitoring. I think I've broadcast on it about 3 times so I'm not sure it's necessary for me to have a helm mounted radio. And it'd be nice to have a handheld onboard for emergencies anyway. So I think I'm leaning towards option 2.

I'd love to hear any thoughts.

After searching around here and based on my previous boat, I'm 80% sure I'm going to go with a mast mount antenna and keep one of those suction cup ones from Shakespeare as a spare or if we ever run without the mast.

Anybody have any idea how long a run of coax is needed? The mast is what, 28 feet? So call it 30 on the topside so there's enough to cut a few inches off and remove corrosion as needed. Or am I wrong in assuming it's a straight run up the mast?

How much is needed to run from the maststep back by the companionway?

After searching on coax I'm still a bit confused but I think RG8X would be acceptable in terms of signal loss wouldn't it? According to the West catalog RG8 shows a -1.8dB loss at 40 feet and -2.7dB at 60 feet. I think I'll go research that some more.

I know, I know, I don't even have the boat yet but I'm dying to get started on my first mod.

ON EDIT: I recall reading a thread a while back about lightening protection with a mast mounted antenna. Something about an arrestor I think. But I can't seem to find that thread with the search. Anybody remember it? Seems like either Frank or Moe brought it up and something about a device you put in the line.

[Grey Beard]

VHF was the first thing I bought after buying the boat. I decided on the Uniden UM 525. I mounted it under the fuse panel and mounted a small waterproof extension speaker (from West Marine) directly behind it in the cockpit so I could hear it while steering.

I mounted the antenna on the transom but in retrospect I will probably replace it with a mast mount. My concern with the mast mount was one more thing to do when stepping the mast.

Steve

[hart]

I'm still debating placement. Most likely it will be by the fuse box.

After reading on the Uniden and Icom site I'm now thinking of option 3. Either the Uniden or the Icom box now with a handheld VHF as well and then add a remote station to the fixed unit later if desired.

After all the experiences on my 22 I'm really into redundancy. Spare rudder (s), spare hardware, spare radios etc. I should tell the story sometime about the rudder breaking on the 22 while I was on a date. Amazingly she married me anyway and despite falling into the pee bucket that same voyage.

[Russ]

I went with option 2.

Inexpensive fixed mount in the cabin. I mounted it under the mast mount with a run right up the mast. It's not accessible from the cockpit, but that's what the handheld is for. If I need more power (25 watts) I'll go below or have a crew member go below. The mast mounted antenna provides extra range as VHF is line of sight.
Otherwise the handheld will suffice for close range communications which is most of the time. The price of both are cheap enough and you have some redundancy.

[DaveB]

I always had VHF built ins in all my boats (mast mount), last 2 (Compac 19 and potter 19 I had the builtin with the portable 1 ft. whip antana that worked fine. I cruise with WCTSS and others and they have handhelds and with my 1 ft. whip I could receive them for 5 miles or so.
I now only have a Uniden 5 watt hand held on My Mac.X and reaches the same. Just chargeing Batteries now after 2 mo. probably 2 -3 day trips and 3 -2 day trips. all I need and can recharge the 6 AA's on board with 2 30 Group batteries and 75 watt inverter.
With a handheld you have it in hand and can hear. radio below decks are useless unless you go remote or put speakers on deck, a $$$.
Try the handheld and if it's not your range you can always get a builtin and dingy with your handheld.
If you venture offshore more than 10 miles or sail in poor VHF signals than a mast mount is your only option and be very carefull Trailering.
Dave

If all goes as planned and there are no surprises I'll be picking up a 2001 X this weekend. It's in good shape, has some nice basic mods, and is pretty empty on electronics which is fine by me as I get new stuff.

First thing's first. I want to install a VHF radio for safety's sake. I'm having two thoughts.

1. Get something like the Uniden UM525 or the Icom M422 for the cabin. The Uniden works with a wireless remote station and the Icom works with a wired one - either would be placed at the helm.

OR

2. Install a less expensive fixed mount in the cabin and use a 5 watt handheld unit at the helm if needed.

On my 22' I use the VHF mainly for monitoring. I think I've broadcast on it about 3 times so I'm not sure it's necessary for me to have a helm mounted radio. And it'd be nice to have a handheld onboard for emergencies anyway. So I think I'm leaning towards option 2.

I'd love to hear any thoughts.

After searching around here and based on my previous boat, I'm 80% sure I'm going to go with a mast mount antenna and keep one of those suction cup ones from Shakespeare as a spare or if we ever run without the mast.

Anybody have any idea how long a run of coax is needed? The mast is what, 28 feet? So call it 30 on the topside so there's enough to cut a few inches off and remove corrosion as needed. Or am I wrong in assuming it's a straight run up the mast?

How much is needed to run from the maststep back by the companionway?

After searching on coax I'm still a bit confused but I think RG8X would be acceptable in terms of signal loss wouldn't it? According to the West catalog RG8 shows a -1.8dB loss at 40 feet and -2.7dB at 60 feet. I think I'll go research that some more.

I know, I know, I don't even have the boat yet but I'm dying to get started on my first mod.

ON EDIT: I recall reading a thread a while back about lightening protection with a mast mounted antenna. Something about an arrestor I think. But I can't seem to find that thread with the search. Anybody remember it? Seems like either Frank or Moe brought it up and something about a device you put in the line.

[Shane]

Hart,

Last season (our first), I went with a floating handheld (Icom M72). I was actually trying to get a hold of a Standard-Horizon P2000; it's a mounted black box with no controls, but fully controlled on a wired handset. The problem was the price was too high. They are no longer a current product and I guess I missed the blowout pricing as I couldn't find any (at a great deal anyway). Back to the hand held; it's a great little radio, and knew I'd be happy with it as a backup or for the tender whenever I installed a mounted radio.

After last season I found that, although coastguard station comm was fine, ship to ship communication to be way too short ranged with it. I also found the only reasonable way to work with it while motoring (engine noise) was to clip in a breast pocket.

This spring I put in an Icom M504. For the price difference, I wouldn't go SC101, I'd prefer the benefits of Class D. I've also installed a wired remote mic (HM 162) at the pedestal. I think it's a great combination. I've installed a 6db fibreglass whip on a 5 ft fiberglass extension off of the mast support arch. Works great, except I have to revisit that antenna location because we've just installed a full cockpit enclosure and right now the two things don't play well with each other.

My 2 cents anyway

Regards,
Shane

[Chinook]

Like Graybeard, I installed a cockpit speaker behind the unit, which in my X is flush mounted to the right of the panel, as you face the panel. Putting a cockpit speaker was something of an afterthought. I needed an access hole from the cockpit side in order to complete installation of the flush mount fittings. The speaker has proven to be a great feature, allowing me to monitor the radio from the steering wheel. Even with motor running, I can hear the radio. My antenna is on top of the mast, and I have excellent range. As discussed in previous posts, it's worth taking steps to keep the coaxial cable from slapping around inside the mast. Attaching zip ties every foot or so, with the tails at right angles to the cable, seems to be a good way to silence the cable.

[hart]

Thanks all for the great thoughts so far. I read about the zip tie trick a while back and put it in my notebook. What an awesome idea! I've been planning this purchase for a long time and have lots of notes from great ideas I've gleaned here and elsewhere.

[Moe]

If I was sailing out of Josephine, AL, I'd feel like I'd died and gone to heaven We took our Whaler down there about a week before Hurricane Ivan hit and we had a ball. I grew up on those waters, a bit more toward Pensacola.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that whole area down there should have pretty good cell phone coverage. I'd definitely want a handheld to communicate with the tugs and other boats in the ICW, as well as marinas, but I don't think I'd need more than that. (I say that having had a fixed mount on the Whaler, but usually on 1 watt). A handheld uses much less power, even when just monitoring.

I don't think I'd go for a fixed mount and mast antenna unless going to Pensacola pass or longer yet, Fort Morgan, on the outside.

[James V]

I have the ICOM 422 with the remote mike at the helm. Way to many bridges and marinas where I need to get to the VHF and stear at the same time. The hand held just does not have the power if somebody has the volume down they cannot hear you and if they do have the volume up, you sound far away.

Buy the West Marine extended warenty and if/when you get a strike you can replace it for free. The last month I was in the Bahamas I was hit and I could not transmit on my VHF and had to replace the unit and remote mike. It did last me over 500 hrs.

Most stock cables are long enough for the mast. I have mine on the M mast support arch

[hart]

Moe - It is beautiful here isn't it? I 'm very lucky to have been able to move back. I haven't had any problems with cell phone coverage down by the beaches on this side but it does tend to get spotty up in some of the bays and bayous we've explored. And anything over by Dauphin Island is hit and miss - or at least it used to be. I haven't been over there in a while.

James, thank you very much for your thoughts especially with lightning.

[Moe]

The hand held just does not have the power if somebody has the volume down they cannot hear you and if they do have the volume up, you sound far away.

Marine VHF is FM, and that's not the way FM works. The amplitude of your voice is based on frequency deviation, which doesn't change with signal strength. What does change is at far distances, where the receiving radio can't drive the signal into the limiter (full quieting), the signal to noise ratio degrades.

[Captain Jim]

Jmes V,

I am getting ready to install(face mount) a Uniden UM525 on our 06 . Where exactly did you install your ICOM 422. Do you have any tips for the installation process? I have mounted our antenna on the mast support as well. Any tips on running the coaxial cable.

Thank-you in advance for your assistance.

Fair winds,

Jim

S/V BOLD VENTURE

[Kelly Hanson East]

I first mounted my Standard Horizon aft of the galley since I thought it was a neat place to put it. It was a pain to use and I moved it to hanging under the fusebox on the port side. It is now even above the plimsoll line if the boat is ever swamped - hopefully blurting out our DSC GPS position to the world.

[K9Kampers]

I've got a radio question to add to the mix. I have a Shakespeare SE700 handheld currently as my primary. Is it (A)-possible & (B)-practicle to connect an external (as in mast or rail mount) antenna to a handheld radio?