Sailing w/o dagger board?

[MarcD]

I would like some discussion of sailing without the dagger board down. I have a slip on the mouth of of Lesser Slave river, and would like to sail out onto the lake. Here is the dilema. the river is only around 60' wide at the mouth, and only about 30' is from 2 to 4' deep. Not much room to manouver. I would like to know how strong of a wind it would take to to heel it over the rub rails, I have had it over the rub rails on a few occassions with the dagger board down and at the worst the boat rounded up. Would this still apply with the dagger board up. Now the reason I want to do this is for the thrill, the bragging rites, and Randy is going to sailing school, so i want to beat him to it

[Hamin' X]

The dagger board is meant to reduce leeway. When down, it will induce more heel.

[nchogberg]

Roger that,

Sailed from Boca Chita Key to Black Point Marina with board up. (Uh forgot to to put it down... )

Anyhoo ended up about 1/2 mile north of where we were headed. Didn't even notice until too late other than it didn't seem to point as well.

Nels

[Russ]

The dagger board is used to keep the boat from blowing sideways.
It's the resistance to blowing sideways that makes it heal. Lift the board up and you just get blown sideways with the wind with only the hull providing sideways resistance.

Now you can get away without it if you are running WITH the wind directly behind you.

Sounds like too tight quarters to be sailing.

[MarcD]

Yes the quarters are tight, but if the wind is right I would like to try just because it would be fun. the strech is only about 400 yards .

[Love MACs]

Hey it's your boat. Just wear your PFD and don't take a crew. Just out of curiosity...how old are you anyway?




Allan

[James V]

I would recommend buying another pair of rudders and cutting down. This will help you with stearing. I almost never run with the dagger board fully down unless trying to go to windward and really need it.

After getting the new rudders and cutting down about a foot, just lower the dagger board 2 feet and see what you get. It should be OK for day sailing.

James

[MarcD]

Thanks James for the advice, i quess I will put that little project aside for now. I am very interested in learning more of sailing with the dagger board up or partly up, as we sail on a very shollow lake, and I have little experience with adjusting my dagger board, I usualy just have is all down or all up

[Terry]

Since you need the rudders to steer, measure how far below the hull they extend (aprox. 30") and then mark your daggerboard line to the same depth and set it there for shallow sailing. I believe you may be in the range of three feet of water. This way if you ground the daggerboard will take the hit as opposed to the weaker rudders which would likely break. I sometimes motor at lower speeds in shallow water with this configuration and get away with it.

[JonBill]

The purpose of the keel is to counterbalance the effect of a lifting lateral force directed to the hull of a boat from the sails as well as to counteract the inertia of the boat. The deeper or heavier the keel, the greater the boat-trueing moment. In your case you have water ballast separate from the keel itself that does this. But you also have the function of the keel in the design of the hull and daggerboard together.

The main purpose of the daggerboard in your case is to prevent leeway movement of the boat while saling which is greater as you approach the wind or what is commonly called crabbing. And it acts as a counterforce to the force exerted by the sails. So without the daggerboard down in your case you crabbed (move sideways through the water) off course quite a bit as you have stated.

The keel or daggerboard must be designed to be more or less wide in the crosswise direction of the hull to prevent leeway movement and for structural integrity, but designed in such a manner so as to minimize drag as little as possible and to minimize the turbulence of by-pass current and the friction surface (wet surface). That's why it's design across (or thickness) is as narrow as possible with a sharper edge aft.

BTW please be careful with your sailing experiment shooting a channel between two bodies of water (which usually has a current present) without having the daggerboard down or you may crab into the rocks. Depending on wind direction and current at the time, you may want to keep your outboard running and attached to the steering just in case.

Kind Regards,
JonBill

[Steve K]

Don't know about the M but the X sails fairly well with c board up. The fairly sharp chine helps, I guess. My D-boat is a very different story. This boat points extremely well with dagger board extended. Once, I put up my sails and took off to catch some friends (in x-boats) as I was late getting off the beach. They were a mile or two ahead of me. I was wondering why I couldn't point the same direction the were going. I was hauling down the lake about 40 degrees off from their direction of travel and I couldn't point my D into the wind. This went on for about five minutes when I noticed all the extra dagger board line laying on the cockpit seat.
DUH!!!

Well, by now my friends were little tiny sails in the distance. But after I dropped my board I pointed up, out pointing my X-boat friends, caught them, sailed around them for some photo opps for awhile, turned back to the original course, sailed to the mark, docked at the marina, walked up to the resturant (about .75 mile) had lunch, walked back to my boat, played a complete Jimmy Buffett CD, while drinking several libations, went back up to take a shower and got back to my boat just in time to greet my friends and invite them up to have dinner @ the resturant.

Some of those friends may read this and I'm quite sure they will say I'm a teller of tall tales. Their word against mine ................ and I'm very sorry I got off the subject to, btw

Anyway, it depends on the boat, but in skinny water, and in a narrow channel, I'd be careful............................... and don't cleat the sheets. It's easy to de-power the sails in a hurry that way.
Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I don't mark my dagger board line.
I pull the board all the way up. Grab the line the distance behind the rope clutch that I want the board down. Undog the clutch and let the line move forward until my hand gets to the clutch, and dog it.

[Randy McCotter]

Marc....... here's the joy of having an X. Last fall, I let the board and rudders 1/2 down as well as tilted the motor just in case I got into trouble. A perfect east wind and I rolled out the Jenny at the entrance to Billys marina. I let the Jenny pull me out to the lake. The board hit the sand but just folded back and the rudders never did hit the sand. Maybe after "school", I'll try it with the main this spring.
By the way, VHF is hooked up and working fine! Now it'll be easier to arrange a small flotilla to beer bay!...... Or you can call and tell me how far behind me you are with your "blue M tank"

......... and here comes the witty retort........

Randy...

[MarcD]

Thanks for all the advice folks, and Randy I will always be singing the BLUES.

[Randy McCotter]

Not a problem..... I knew you would. Just keep your radio on so I can call Ray-Lee-Joy over to Beer Bay where I'll be waiting with a cold one for you. Once there, you can tell me how well that 50 is running.