POINTING a Venture 24-4

[SURV69]

I can't seem to point my 24-4 within 45-50 degrees with a speed of above 3 or so mph.

Is this normal?

[beene]

What were the conditions?
Wind speeds
Water chop
Sails in use

More details please.

G

[SURV69]

it's happened every time I've ever tried to beat the wind.

generally i run a 150 genny and full main in about 10mph wind.

i suspect i need to run a working jib to point better?

[Catigale]

The jib will point better, correct.

[beene]

Well, I am no Venture expert, but she's more of a sailboat then my M, and I can get her about 30 off apparent. Check your rigging, make sure your mast is straight port/starboard, check for mast rake, as you pointed out the jib is better for pointing. 10 mph wind as you stated is not very much wind. I find my M does not perfrom well in light air. I usually head out when there is a small craft warning, that way I am guaranteed to get enough wind to get her moving....



G

[Catigale]

, and I can get her about 30 off apparent.

Thats the best Ive ever seen Beene - is that 30 Canadian degrees?

Seriously, have you tacked through the wind and showing 70 degrees of angle on the two tacks? Post us a GPS trace and we will bow to your skills.

[Bawgy]

I have two Venture 24 's and can tell you that if the winds are light 1-5 then the jib will point better although you do lose some speed . I have foung I actually point a little better leaving the jib a little loose in light winds for a better shape . I will usually fly my genoa in W/S up to 10-12 knots . Then I put the jib on and reef if over 15

[Frank C]

Errrr ...
lending just the barest, minimal support of the "Canadian claim" to pointing at 30* apparent ... is pointing to 35 apparent the same as tacking thru 70 ??? I think not.

There's a sizeable compass gap between the apparent wind positions on alternate tacks, right? Pointing to 45 apparent on each tack would still mean "tacking thru" 100, assuming the apparent wind is shifted forward 5 degrees from true wind. Higher speeds shift the apparent wind even farther forward ... means I'm okay with tacking thru 110, or 120.

C'est l'animal, eh Eric?

[Catigale]

I was SWAGGING the tack angle on a GPS but I guess I was reacting to have never seen a stock Mac of powersailor type reporting even 90 degrees of tack angle on a GPS track, let alone a 70.

[beene]

I love getting into this Apparent vs True wind thing... feels like I'm in school again trying to figure about how to fit a bear into a thimble. What? Didn't you have to figure that out? LOL

OK then...



In this diagram, the boat is doing 6 knots, is close hauled on a starboard tack. The true wind is 40 deg off and at 12kts, the apparent wind angle is less at 27 deg and 17kts.

I said I have been ABOUT 30 deg apparent, maybe if I had a gps track plot and not using my eyes, I would find it was more like 27 deg vs 30.


U guys....

So, lets see, for the tacking angle. Using this diagram as a base, leaving out apparent wind, the boat would be tacking through 80 deg of true, no?

And using apparent wind, you would be still be tacking through 80 deg would you not?

My brain hurts now, I hope you're happy.



G

[Frank C]

Geoff,

If you'd shrink that diagram just a bit more, my eyes could start hurting enough to relieve my headache! Without trying to compute speeds, here's how it occurs to me:

1. True wind is North, or 00 degrees.
2. Port tack shows a heading of 045 deg.;
3. Boat speed has moved the apparent wind forward to 005 (from 00);
4. (means fwd along the port beam) so pointing is 40-app. (045 vs 005);
5. NOW tack! ... new heading is 315 on STB tack;
6. Boat speed moves apparent wind forward to 355 (from 00);
7. (means forward along the STB beam) so pointing is 40-app. (315 vs 355).

BUT ... looking at the compass, we tacked from port-45 to stb-315, which is a compass change of 90 degrees. That's where the phrase "tacking thru 90" originates. Yet we see above that we were pointing at 40 off the apparent wind. There's a compass gap of 10 degrees, 5 degrees each side of true wind. The achievable sailing course is wider than pointing achieved vs apparent wind.

(methinks)

[Catigale]

Thats correct. Tacking a stock through 90 degrees is pretty good Ive found...as in I dont think Ive ever acheived it...

I dont think even the swivelling mast could get you an extra 20 degrees of tack angle though....must be that blue hull

[beene]

Sorry about the size of the dig Frank. I had to save it to disk and use photo viewing software and zoom in to be able to fully read it myself

This is where I get all my sailing info from...

CLICK HERE

Cheers

G

[Moe]

Their labels of points of sail (based on true wind) are not the way I was taught (based on apparent wind). In other words, their illustration of a beam reach is my broad reach, their illustration of a broad reach is my beam reach, their illustration of running is my broad reach, and my running is with the true and apparent wind dead aft or nearly so.

[baldbaby2000]

Well, I am no Venture expert, but she's more of a sailboat then my M, and I can get her about 30 off apparent.

I can probably get about 35 deg apparent, or less if I pinch a little, on my M. About 45 deg true is about the most I'll do without loosing VMG. My indicator (it measures true and apparent) can lead me to believe I'm doing better but I think that's because when the boat's heeled a lot, the reading is probably overly optimistic (assuming the wind direction is parallel to the water). One can also be fooled since the boat will develop more leeway when pinching and heeling.

I can't seem to point my 24-4 within 45-50 degrees with a speed of above 3 or so mph.

How good are your sails? An old blown out main with a beer belly won't point well in medium or heavy air. Also make sure you adjust you sails for the conditions. In heavy air flatten them out; thighten the outhaul, halyard (or Cunningham), and the vang if you have one unless you get overpowered, then you should loosen the vang to spill air from the top of the sail. In very light and very heavy air you probably won't point as well. Make sure you don't oversheet the jib in light air. It should almost be luffing.

Daniel