I just got a dual battery charger with fixed terminal leads. The charger mounts permanently in the boat. 10 amps/hour 5/5. I am thinking about mounting it in the bilge under the aft starboard dinette seat. The unit has circuitry to monitor overheating and varioud other potential problems, as well as not overcharcharging the batteries i.e. ability to be left plugged in for long periods of time (maintenance mode.) It is also water proof and approved for salt water use. All this was in the product description as well as the installation manual. What I also found in the installation manual, however, is that you should open the water chambers and let the batteries vent for 15 minutes prior to charing. The batteries must be well ventilated during charging, as well as the charger.
My question is: Is this overkill? The way I envisioned the setup is to have the power plugged in at the dock, charger in its mounted location in the bilge and battery locker lid left in place. No fuss with opening the water chambers either. Is this a mistake? I also question "adequate ventilation." Inside the bilges and the battery locker itself may not be adequate ventilation, though when opening these areas, I find plenty of draft... not exactly sure where it comes from, probably from the rudder posts which are open, though with the boat in the water, air may no longer enter this area. I know that a little bit of air can still enter through the opening for the engine steering bar, though perhaps not nearly enough. I am not good with electrical stuff, so would really appreciate some advice. Thanks.
Leon
Charging Batteries
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beene
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I have the Bass Pro XPS i 5/5 SEEN HERE
Like what you want to do, I leave the unit plugged in all the time while at the dock, permanently attached to the 2 batts, no fuss no muss. Just unplug your shore power and go, knowing both batts are fully charged and ready to go. Come back to the slip, plug in the s/p and go home. Never opened the batts, never worry about ventilation, the batt compartment of our M's is part of the entire under liner area. Everything from the bow to the stern shares the air with that area so I would not worry about that at all.
Car batts are charged all the time from the alternator, imagine having to open the cells on the car bat every time before you started your BMW. NOT going to happen.
Overkill if you ask me.
Cheers
G
Like what you want to do, I leave the unit plugged in all the time while at the dock, permanently attached to the 2 batts, no fuss no muss. Just unplug your shore power and go, knowing both batts are fully charged and ready to go. Come back to the slip, plug in the s/p and go home. Never opened the batts, never worry about ventilation, the batt compartment of our M's is part of the entire under liner area. Everything from the bow to the stern shares the air with that area so I would not worry about that at all.
Car batts are charged all the time from the alternator, imagine having to open the cells on the car bat every time before you started your BMW. NOT going to happen.
Overkill if you ask me.
Cheers
G
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Chip Hindes
- Admiral
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- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
I've had this identical setup on my 2001 X since new and use it just as you envisioned. Being a resident of the frozen north, I also leave it plugged in as a maintainer all winter with the boat on the trailer in the yard.
I like the setup a lot and plan to duplicate it in my second boat (Newport 30) this Spring. PO left me with a fancy new Schumacher digital charger which probably set him back $80, but it is an automotive grade charger and not suitable for permanent installation.
What is the brand of your charger? I have read the manual on mine a number of times (a bad habit I have) and I'm about 99% sure there is nothing in there about pulling the vent caps.
Mine was sold with a Statpower Truecharge label. Statpower was acquired by Xantrex in '99 and though the Truecharge model seems to have survived, it appears Statpower has not.
I like the setup a lot and plan to duplicate it in my second boat (Newport 30) this Spring. PO left me with a fancy new Schumacher digital charger which probably set him back $80, but it is an automotive grade charger and not suitable for permanent installation.
What is the brand of your charger? I have read the manual on mine a number of times (a bad habit I have) and I'm about 99% sure there is nothing in there about pulling the vent caps.
Mine was sold with a Statpower Truecharge label. Statpower was acquired by Xantrex in '99 and though the Truecharge model seems to have survived, it appears Statpower has not.
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delevi
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This is the unit I got:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=724526
$92.99 from Defender.com
on edit: can't get the link to display for some reason. Just paste into your browser.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=724526
$92.99 from Defender.com
on edit: can't get the link to display for some reason. Just paste into your browser.
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dennisneal
- First Officer
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- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Riverside, CA, '06 26M, 60HP Etec; Sailing out of Marina Del Rey
Leon,
If you delete:
and the link should work.
I just bought a Black and Decker vehicle battery booster for about $40. It can be recharged from shore power and it says it will recharge a car or boat battery in less than 10 minutes. Has anyone tried this item?
Dennis
If you delete:
and the link should work.
I just bought a Black and Decker vehicle battery booster for about $40. It can be recharged from shore power and it says it will recharge a car or boat battery in less than 10 minutes. Has anyone tried this item?
Dennis
Taking the URL tags off won't work any better than leaving them on. You have to take out the path with the | characters.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?&id=724526
We also use our on board charger without popping the caps off the battery.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?&id=724526
We also use our on board charger without popping the caps off the battery.
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MacShales
- Just Enlisted
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- Location: Vernon, BC, 2004 Mac 26M, Good Timin'
Leon:
I may be just a dumb engineer, but I think the warning about adequate ventilation should be considered. When you charge a lead-sulphate battery the gases generated are not just H2 but can be gaseous forms of acids like H2SO4 ( I sound like a chemistry teacher) which are heavier than air. IMHO, adequate means not relying on free convection currents to exchange air but to forcibly ventilate the room. In heavy industry, we are required by law to build well ventilated rooms for battery charging ( and I'm talking lead-sulphate batteries for mobile equipment) I would at least put some fans in there that I could turn on for several minutes to vent the salon area in case these gases persist.
Do some Googling on this issue before you trust that system.
Just a thought and a concern.
Take care, Brian
I may be just a dumb engineer, but I think the warning about adequate ventilation should be considered. When you charge a lead-sulphate battery the gases generated are not just H2 but can be gaseous forms of acids like H2SO4 ( I sound like a chemistry teacher) which are heavier than air. IMHO, adequate means not relying on free convection currents to exchange air but to forcibly ventilate the room. In heavy industry, we are required by law to build well ventilated rooms for battery charging ( and I'm talking lead-sulphate batteries for mobile equipment) I would at least put some fans in there that I could turn on for several minutes to vent the salon area in case these gases persist.
Do some Googling on this issue before you trust that system.
Just a thought and a concern.
Take care, Brian
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Chip Hindes
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The more I think of it the less sense it makes. The 5/5 label means this will charge each battery at the 5 amp rate.
99% of motor alternators can charge the batteries at higher rates than that. My Tohatsu does a rather puny 11 amps, but all eleven would normally go into a single battery. Isn't it the higher charge rates that cause more outgassing?
99% of motor alternators can charge the batteries at higher rates than that. My Tohatsu does a rather puny 11 amps, but all eleven would normally go into a single battery. Isn't it the higher charge rates that cause more outgassing?
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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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I just have a 2 stage 25 dollar car battery charger (from Advance auto parts in Tampa) which I leave permanently hooked up to the batteries (not permanently plugged in though). It sits right next to my double battery bank under the galley seat with the gauge facing up so I don't have to move it at all to see the charge amperage.
Well vented and it has never caught fire for the 4+ years its been there(remembering Joe's fire incident with a marine rated charger). And if it eventually corodes in the Marine environment, I could replace it 3 times for the price of one marine unit. Somehow I doubt that the marine unit would last 4 times as long as the auto unit which is one fourth the price. Afterall, the last auto unit I bought which I still use for my cars is over 30 years old and still kicking.
Well vented and it has never caught fire for the 4+ years its been there(remembering Joe's fire incident with a marine rated charger). And if it eventually corodes in the Marine environment, I could replace it 3 times for the price of one marine unit. Somehow I doubt that the marine unit would last 4 times as long as the auto unit which is one fourth the price. Afterall, the last auto unit I bought which I still use for my cars is over 30 years old and still kicking.
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RickJ
- First Officer
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- Location: Isle of Wight, UK - '94 19 + Tohatsu MFS30
IIR my electro-chemistry correctly, the thing that causes gas emission in lead-acid batteries is over charging.
This usually happens with cheap mains-powered chargers that are either badly smoothed, badly regulated, or both. The charging circuit in a car smooths the alternator output so there are no high peaks, and regulates the current so that it shuts off once the battery reaches full-charge voltage (between 13.5 & 14 V).
Modern, good-quality, smart mains chargers do exactly the same job, so I don't think there is really any risk of gas emission if a decent charger is used.
Also bear in mind that "maintenance-free" batteries (which is most currently-available ones) are not really intended to have the cell caps removed on any kind of regular basis. However, if you're really concerned, these batteries usually have a small nozzle which vents any gas that might be produced, and this can be connected to a vent tube which leads to the outside.
This usually happens with cheap mains-powered chargers that are either badly smoothed, badly regulated, or both. The charging circuit in a car smooths the alternator output so there are no high peaks, and regulates the current so that it shuts off once the battery reaches full-charge voltage (between 13.5 & 14 V).
Modern, good-quality, smart mains chargers do exactly the same job, so I don't think there is really any risk of gas emission if a decent charger is used.
Also bear in mind that "maintenance-free" batteries (which is most currently-available ones) are not really intended to have the cell caps removed on any kind of regular basis. However, if you're really concerned, these batteries usually have a small nozzle which vents any gas that might be produced, and this can be connected to a vent tube which leads to the outside.
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baldbaby2000
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Leon,
I have a similar setup. The charger is kind of wedged in the bildge along one of the water ballast channels just aft of the starboard dinette seat. The bilge area under the batteries isn't sealed very well; I can't imagine H2 being able to accumulate to any dangerous extent. I hadn't heard about H2SO4 mentioned in a previous post so I can't comment on that. The danger might be a defective charger that goes from maintenance mode to heavy charge when it's not supposed to; don't know the odds of that happening but I usually plug mine in for a day or so every couple weeks when I'm not using the boat rather than leave it on all the time.
I think of this because my wife just showed me two 9V nickel-metal hydride rechargeble batteries that melted down in a low amp charger. She uses rechargables a lot in her TENS unit (to help pain from an old motorcycle accident). I have no idea why they melted down other than a charger malfunction but the charger seems to be working fine with other batteries.
I suppose you could put a small vent in the top of the battery cover. Mine doesn't sit properly anyway so it's always vented to some extent right above the batteries.
Daniel
I have a similar setup. The charger is kind of wedged in the bildge along one of the water ballast channels just aft of the starboard dinette seat. The bilge area under the batteries isn't sealed very well; I can't imagine H2 being able to accumulate to any dangerous extent. I hadn't heard about H2SO4 mentioned in a previous post so I can't comment on that. The danger might be a defective charger that goes from maintenance mode to heavy charge when it's not supposed to; don't know the odds of that happening but I usually plug mine in for a day or so every couple weeks when I'm not using the boat rather than leave it on all the time.
I think of this because my wife just showed me two 9V nickel-metal hydride rechargeble batteries that melted down in a low amp charger. She uses rechargables a lot in her TENS unit (to help pain from an old motorcycle accident). I have no idea why they melted down other than a charger malfunction but the charger seems to be working fine with other batteries.
I suppose you could put a small vent in the top of the battery cover. Mine doesn't sit properly anyway so it's always vented to some extent right above the batteries.
Daniel