Broke a window :-(

[mike]

While securing the boat Sunday after a nice sail with some friends, I inadvertently stepped on one of the two big front windows, cracking it. I've got a piece of "sail bandage" tape over the crack to keep it from leaking for now.

What's the best way to proceed with this? Should I order a new window, or just buy the material to make my own? Is that plexiglass? How hard is that stuff to cut?

Thanks!

--Mike

[Don T]

Hello:
The windows are made of Lexan (polycarbonate). They are held in with 3M double sided closed cell foam Tape. I don't know if MacGregor has spares to sell or not but it's worth a try.
It's not too difficult to cut with a table saw or even a jig saw for that matter. Use candle wax on your blade to keep it from balling up and take your time. You can smooth the edges with a file or sandpaper then use some of the adheasive fluid on a rag to do the final edge shine. Line up the window and drill the holes. Clean the surfaces with alcohol, then apply your adheasive foam tape (be sure you leave no gaps or it will leak). Use long screws or dowels to keep your alignment and stick the window in.
When it comes time for me to replace my forward windows I think I'm going to increase the thickness of the Lexan and route the outer edges. I have never liked how weak the windows are with the errant foot usually bending them in far enough to break the seal.

[mike]

Thanks for the info, Don. What is the standard thickness of the 26x's Lexan? Also, what exactly do you mean by using candle wax on the blade? Does that simply mean you rub some wax on the blade periodically as you cut?

Thanks!

--Mike

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

My windows in my '96 are not held in by double stick tape, they are fully bedded in a black caulk of some sort. It's not silicon or 5200, but some other sealer/glue. This and the small bolts hold them in.

I would start with the factory or one of the dealers. I would think Bluewater in Seattle would have a stock of spare windows, www.bwyachts.com .

If you do go the do it yourself route, you not only have to get the right shape cut out and drilled for the bolts but you have to match the thickness and the tint.

[Chip Hindes]

Some of you may have already seen the photo of my broken side window from the trip to Dry Tortugas.

Sorry to contradict, but when I was searching for the replacement, I was told by several dealers that the windows are not polycarbonate (Lexan) but acrylic (Plexiglass or Lucite). Not sure whether this statement could be limited to the side windows, but my (limited) experience with both these materials tells me that acrylic fractures in just this fashion, but polycarbonate should not.

Apparently (also from the dealers I talked to) the factory has abandoned the X as far as most repair parts go. If you find any they will be leftover stock. Nobody had the window I was looking for. The factory never returned the call on the message I left. I just happened to catch Blue Water Yachts in the process of making a replacement window for another customer, and they agreed to make one for me as well. So good luck finding one.

The other suggestion from several dealers was to take the broken window to a glass repair shop; most also handle plastic and they can duplicate it. Make sure first; wouldn't do to get the old window out and then find you can't get a replacement anytime soon.

My '01 windows are not held in with sticky tape either, as Duane says it's black rubbery stuff. It's about the same consistency as 5200 and I assumed that's what it was, or a generic equivalent, but I could be wrong.

Finally, the miked thickness of my side window is .170". This seems an oddball size; my supplier offers .187 (3/16) standard thickness and "preshrunk" .187 at 3x the cost of standard. My data sheet says that it shrinks slightly during thermoforming, but that doesn't explain why a flat piece would be .017 undersize. Could this be another example of the legendary (some would say infamous) Mac cost cutting, perhaps a 10% savings on the material cost of windows, or Roger picked up a "railcar load" of undersize plastic for cheap? Can't say. In any case I don't think the extra .017" would make a noticeable difference on an installed window.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

If I was replacing a front window I would consider doing both and switching to a heavier lexan from the thin cheap acrylic used by the factory. As hard as you try not to, these windows do get stepped on from time to time and a stronger material wouldn't hurt.

I'd even consider just blocking them off with solid material. We recently added curtains for the long trip and over the 23 days we always opened the side ones but rarely the fronts. They let too much heat in. When we have our dinghy on the bow behind the hatch in it's storage postion it blocks the view from the windows anyway. All in all we find the front windows pretty useless and I think we would be better served with solid panels in their place with a non-skid surface.

I'd even like to do away with the whole black stripe thing. It's amazing how much hotter the interior gets in the stripe area and it's a pain to keep looking black anyway.

Chip, the reason I don't think it is 5200 is it seems to rubbery and easy to remove. 5200 sticks a lot better than this stuff.

[kmclemore]

Mine's a 1998 and it, too, is bedded with the black stuff. It looks a lot like the rubber windshield mounting compound we used to use at Lotus Cars many years ago. It's called "3M Auto Glass Urethane Windshield Adhesive" and it's a mess to work with. It's a pretty small job - I wonder if it might not just be easier to have your local automotive glass guy do the job for you - likely to be pretty cheap.

[Chip Hindes]

Chip, the reason I don't think it is 5200 is it seems to rubbery and easy to remove. 5200 sticks a lot better than this stuff.

Do you think they remove the mold wax from the flanges before they install the windows, or just glop the stuff on? Could explain why it doesn't stick as well as when you or I do it. Also, you could be right in that 3M brand 5200 is pretty expensive stuff. You think this could be yet another example of cost cutting? Examples of such, unfortunately, seem to abound.

Interestingly, my West Marine store doesn't carry the black 5200, and I was in a hurry so I bought the (cheaper) West Marine equivalent. I haven't arrived at that point in the installation yet anyhow, so it'll be interesting to find out whether it behaves the same.

I also hear what you're saying about the forward visibility, but the mate and I like to lie in the V-berth and watch the stars (and anchor light).

[Paul S]

While securing the boat Sunday after a nice sail with some friends, I inadvertently stepped on one of the two big front windows, cracking it. I've got a piece of "sail bandage" tape over the crack to keep it from leaking for now.

What's the best way to proceed with this? Should I order a new window, or just buy the material to make my own? Is that plexiglass? How hard is that stuff to cut?

Thanks!

--Mike

You can also try a sign shop (ones that make signs for buildings, etc). Bring in the window and they should be able to match the material, tint level, and even cut it to size for you. I had a heck of a time replacing a plastic insert for our ceiling fixture. They had it in stock, cut it to size for me. It was cheap too. Matched flawlessly.

I plan on having them make me a new hatch out of arcrylic/etc so we can see out (like the earlier M's)

Paul

[kmclemore]

Lotus cars use the windshield as a sturcutral member, so having it tightly bonded to the body shell was critical.... with out a tight bond the body shook and rattled, stress cracks developed in the glassfibre, etc... (sounds like a Mac! )

Recalling back (about 24 years now!) it seems to me that the procedure used to be to lay down an unterrupted rim of 3M Butyl Tape around the windshield opening, then to *very carefully* lower the glass onto the tape - this is a once-and-done procedure, since like any contact cement you don't get a second chance. Once the glass was fully pressed into place you went around the whole thing with the 3M Urethane, filling the entire channel around the glass and up to the edge of the frame. You had to be a bit of a wizard with the caulking gun, because this stuff does not take well to smearing around with a putty knife... it sticks to bloody everything and skins-over (surface drying) very quickly.

Oh, and when you use that 3M Urethane you need to prime the surfaces first with their special primer.

[mike]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll contact some glass shops and/or sign shops to see if I can bring the broken window in for a replacement to be fabricated (actually, I go ahead and replace both of them). I don't want to replace the windows with solid material, as I like the forward visibility (limited, but better than nothing) for the sake of being able to steer the boat with the autopilot remote from below in inclement weather (even though it would be very nice to not have to worry about stepping there when going up front).

--Mike

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I find I like to step forward when the autopilot is driving as well, but the view below is just too restricted. I tend to stop at the companionway and stand on the step looking through the dodger.

[Don T]

Hello:
Sorry if I misled you but my windows are certainly held in with foam tape. Very sticky and very strong. I have had 2 of them out for reshaping.
3M 5200 is urethane adhesive sealant and automotive urethane is very similar. The slow cure holds at 2400 lbs/sq in and the fast cure holds at 1200 lbs/sq in.
The idea of using the butyl is not a good one. Butyl is not compatible with urethane although a lot of aftermarket auto glass shops did it that way cuz it was easier. This method usurped the structural aspect of windshield mounting. It will not hold the window sufficiently (butyl holds at 34 lbs/sq in) and will soon leak.
I would try adhering some lexan and plexi with urethane first. I does not stick to everything although it sure seemed like it when I was working in automotive.
Having worked with my windows I am sure they are lexan. Plexi cuts like butter and Lexan is tough. In fact, the stuff on the boat was considerably tougher than the polycarbinate I bought for my galley mods. Additionally polycarbinate absorbs moisture over time which is why our windows look hazy instead of clear like they did when our boats were new. Plexi gets spider crazing after a few years.
Addmittedly, my boat is a 95 so maybe Roger went cheapo in the later years.

To answer the question, YES, just rub some candle wax (more like melt after you start cutting) onto the blade. It keeps the plastic from sticking and balling up. Works on the table saw too. Bee's wax might work better but I have not tried it (my grampa used it exclusively).

[norbert]

hi chip, how did you manage to crash your boat? do you have the repair done? self or by a boatyard?

i had a bad damage on the hull-deck-joint 2 years ago when a thunderstorm and big waves (on a small inland lake!) crusehd my fenders and pushed my boat under a concrete pier. a boatbuilder laminated it over, better than new now, only the paint is a little bit whiter than the original gelcoat. i also had to replace the entire rubrail (with one of larger size). all in all a 2.000$ job, covered by my very nice insurance (panthaenius).

[Chip Hindes]

I don't know how to point to a particular post from another thread, but this is the explanation I posted earlier:

We weren't on the boat when it happened, during a quick thunderstorm, but saw it from about 1/2 mile away. At the time we didn't see the collision nor the damage; as several of us watched it (I thought) zooming through the anchorage at a truly alarming rate, the boat suddenly caught up short on the rode, pivoted, seemd to be fine, and one of the other Mac owners convinced me it was just the typical sailing at anchor syndrome. We then had a great supper and didn't even realize the anchor had drug until returning by our dinghy about 11:30 PM, when the boat wasn't where it was "supposed" to be. In fact, it was only about 100 yards south of where it had been, but apparently on the short trip had collided with another smaller sailboat, which had the mast down and protruding from the bow pulpit like a bowsprit. There was no damage to the other boat but the height of the damage and the "bowsprit" left little doubt that was what happened.

We had set the anchor over 24 hours earlier, in the direction of the prevailing winds for over a week, by setting plenty of scope and then backing for at least 15 seconds with all 50 horses. It had also survived some pretty stiff winds the previous night without incident. There is no explanation as to why it had let go, nor why, if it was due to a wind shift, it didn't immedeiately reset as it always had in the past.

All week, while others were dragging and I wasn't, I had been telling them that a single good anchor well set is better than two mediocre anchors; but I have been truly humbled by this experience and feel the need to rethink my anchoring strategy.

******
My cheap mode is coming through; The damage was light enough that it probably wouldn't have exceeded the deductable on my insurance, so I didn't bother to make the claim, I'm fixing it myself. My original estimate was $100 material plus my labor. I ended up buying way more repair stuff than I needed, for future projects (which I will probably never get to) so the out of pocket is going to be closer to $150, and I have perhaps 10 hours in it so far. We've been having endless rain here and it's tough to do fiberglass repairs in the rain, so (as always happens) it's taken way longer than I figured. Learn fiberglass repair in your spare time!

You can go back to the picture website Crunch, Ground out, Glass 1, Glass 2, and see the progress with the repair as it happens. I estimate another five hours or so to completion. It's "seaworthy" already, though I'm still waiting for the replacement window. I may lose patience, and instead of gelcoat just slap some paint on and put her back on the water first, in which case I'll finish it when I get to it.